Commission-only sales force?

Hi all,

My fledgling business, selling inexpensive oil paintings (eg $200USD for a
framed 20"x24" original oil) needs a boost! I ran a year long test in a
local craft market where the pictures sold reasonably well, but I need to
expand my horizons. The craft market was a good concept because I could
sell the pictures without actually being there. The downside was that the
markets main traffic was limited to craft lovers spending $5-$50 per item,
which made my paintings about the most expensive item in the shop. My
ideal target would be to medium-sized retailers (as I assume large
retailers like Walmart would cut me out and go directly to the source, and
small retailers would not sell sufficient product to make the business
viable) where there is a good chance of reorders after the initial sell.

There is no way I can give up my day job until the painting business
really takes off, and I have very little free capital to sink into an
advertizing campaign. My thought was to try commission-only salesmen
selling into the retail stores.

Would the group experts consider this a wise move? If not, do they have
any suggestions (and please, no mention of getting a bankloan/remortgaging
etc. for a marketing campaign, or some such, as that is totally out of the
question). If they do consider it a reasonable way to begin what would my
business need to provide to the salesmen for them to do their job
effectively?

Thanks in advance
Joe

You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone else's work?

Scott Jensen
--
Peer-to-peer networking (a.k.a. file-sharing) is entertainment's future.
If you'd like to know why, read the white paper at the link below.
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On 14 Sep 2004 16:14:32 GMT, Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:

>
> You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone else's work?
>
> Scott Jensen

Selling someone elses work.

"Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
> Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:
> > You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone
> > else's work?
>
> Selling someone elses work.

So you want to make a commission off of another salesperson's work? Just
clarifying things here.

Scott Jensen
--
Peer-to-peer networking (a.k.a. file-sharing) is entertainment's future.
If you'd like to know why, read the white paper at the link below.
http://www.scottjensenshow.com/P2PRevolution.pdf

"Scott T. Jensen" <stj@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ciaakb0fi4@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
> > Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:
> > > You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone
> > > else's work?
> >
> > Selling someone elses work.
>
> So you want to make a commission off of another salesperson's work? Just
> clarifying things here.
>

Salesperson's work? He's selling art that he apparently buys from some sort
of wholesale outlet. He's looking to hire additional commissioned
salespeople. What he is describing is no different than any shoe store.
Whoever owns the inventory is making money off of another salesperson's
work. If he had enough people selling for him, no doubt he could buy in
greater quantity at better prices and maybe, eventually, directly from the
artists. Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to sell a product
without having to lay out any money for inventory.

--
McWebber
No email replies read
If someone tells you to forward an email to all your friends
please forget that I'm your friend.

Scott T. Jensen wrote:
> "Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
>
>>Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone
>>>else's work?
>>
>>Selling someone elses work.
>
>
> So you want to make a commission off of another salesperson's work? Just
> clarifying things here.
>
> Scott Jensen

Let me try to clarify:
Oil paintings are done in a studio by unknown artists. I buy the
paintings and sell them for a profit. My marketing budget is virtually
non-existant so I was wondering of the pros and cons of finding
commission-only sales people to sell to retail outlets and the like.

Hope that makes things clearer

Joe

"Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
> Scott T. Jensen wrote:
> > "Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
> >>Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:
> >>>You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone
> >>>else's work?
> >>
> >>Selling someone elses work.
> >
> > So you want to make a commission off of another
> > salesperson's work? Just clarifying things here.
>
> Let me try to clarify:
> Oil paintings are done in a studio by unknown artists. I
> buy the paintings and sell them for a profit. My marketing
> budget is virtually non-existant so I was wondering of the
> pros and cons of finding commission-only sales people to
> sell to retail outlets and the like.
>
> Hope that makes things clearer

Yes, it did. There are a number of different ways I could have read your
previous reply and thus wanted a clarification.

The craft market approach had you have a much more direct contact with
customers. I assume you rented the space at the craft market and could
decorate it as you wish within certain limits. Some craft markets only
charge you a rent, but most also take a cut of each sale. The problem
expressed in your original post is that you feel is that your products are
above the market for these locations and want to get into a more appropriate
retail spot.

As for your original thoughts on competition from Wal-Mart, the last time I
checked they didn't sell original artwork but at most prints so they're not
really going after the same customer as you are.

As for hiring people to sell the paintings to retailers that would then sell
them for you, you're now a middleman between the painters and retailers ...
where before you were the retailer. Volume will now more come into play.
Retailers need a dependable source for the stuff they sell. They budget,
schedule, and set aside space for it. Can you get your artists to be that
dependable? If you can, this might be a good option for you to pursue. If
you cannot, you should consider other options.

However, as for getting salespersons to only work on commission to sell such
paintings to retailers, I think you'll have a problem with this. There's
the issue of volume of their sales to make it profitable for them to do
this. How dependable that volume is will also need to be factored in.
There are the limited retail venues for original artwork ... even of the
"starving" artist variety. And you'll have to compete against other art
distributors / talent agents for those retail venues.

As for possible other options:

1) Open up your own art gallery. This is the traditional route for selling
original works of art. There are many different approaches for this and
those depend on the price range of the art being sold, the type of art being
sold, the target market, the local economy, and a long list of other
factors. You could then hire salespersons to work the gallery for you on
commission. They don't sell the art, they don't get paid.

2) Sell to other art galleries. If you go this route, you're now a talent
agent for the "unknown" artists. And you'll need to sign them up as agency
clients or the art galleries will just bypass you to go directly to the
source. However, art galleries almost never have any problem getting the
unknown artists to sell their work directly to them. Talent agents only
become an option for a known name artist.

3) Sell to espresso cafes. Most espresso cafes these days sell all the
paintings that hang on their walls. Unfortunately, such sales as at best
secondary income for the cafes. They mainly view it was a way to get
paintings for nothing to hang on their walls. If they sell a painting,
that's just gravy and I've never heard of an espresso cafe worker pitching a
painting to any customer. You give them a couple more painting that the
cafe need so in case one sells, they have another to hang up to cover up
that blank wall space. However, they're usually very picky on what
paintings they'll take and the effort to service them might not be worth it.

Of the three options above, I'd suggest looking into the first one. You do
not have to quit your job to do it. It can operate on its own with the
commission-only employees.

Good luck!

Scott Jensen
--
Peer-to-peer networking (a.k.a. file-sharing) is entertainment's future.
If you'd like to know why, read the white paper at the link below.
http://www.scottjensenshow.com/P2PRevolution.pdf

On 16 Sep 2004 00:35:56 GMT, Joe Body <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:

>
>Scott T. Jensen wrote:
>> "Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone
>>>>else's work?
>>>
>>>Selling someone elses work.
>>
>>
>> So you want to make a commission off of another salesperson's work? Just
>> clarifying things here.
>>
>> Scott Jensen
>
>Let me try to clarify:
>Oil paintings are done in a studio by unknown artists. I buy the
>paintings and sell them for a profit. My marketing budget is virtually
>non-existant so I was wondering of the pros and cons of finding
>commission-only sales people to sell to retail outlets and the like.
>
>Hope that makes things clearer
>
>Joe
>
I see a problem regarding convincing potential salespeople to work on
a commission only basis. Have you sent out any "feelers" on this?


Rose
http://members.aol.com/Roseb441702/consult.htm
"Can YOU Make Money on the Internet?-YES!"

Scott T. Jensen wrote:

> "Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
>
>>Scott T. Jensen wrote:
>>
>>>"Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Scott T. Jensen <stj@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>You painting the pictures yourself or selling someone
>>>>>else's work?
>>>>
>>>>Selling someone elses work.
>>>
>>>So you want to make a commission off of another
>>>salesperson's work? Just clarifying things here.
>>
>>Let me try to clarify:
>>Oil paintings are done in a studio by unknown artists. I
>>buy the paintings and sell them for a profit. My marketing
>>budget is virtually non-existant so I was wondering of the
>>pros and cons of finding commission-only sales people to
>>sell to retail outlets and the like.
>>
>>Hope that makes things clearer
>
>
> Yes, it did. There are a number of different ways I could have read your
> previous reply and thus wanted a clarification.
>
> The craft market approach had you have a much more direct contact with
> customers. I assume you rented the space at the craft market and could
> decorate it as you wish within certain limits. Some craft markets only
> charge you a rent, but most also take a cut of each sale. The problem
> expressed in your original post is that you feel is that your products are
> above the market for these locations and want to get into a more appropriate
> retail spot.
>
> As for your original thoughts on competition from Wal-Mart, the last time I
> checked they didn't sell original artwork but at most prints so they're not
> really going after the same customer as you are.
>
> As for hiring people to sell the paintings to retailers that would then sell
> them for you, you're now a middleman between the painters and retailers ...
> where before you were the retailer. Volume will now more come into play.
> Retailers need a dependable source for the stuff they sell. They budget,
> schedule, and set aside space for it. Can you get your artists to be that
> dependable? If you can, this might be a good option for you to pursue. If
> you cannot, you should consider other options.
>
> However, as for getting salespersons to only work on commission to sell such
> paintings to retailers, I think you'll have a problem with this. There's
> the issue of volume of their sales to make it profitable for them to do
> this. How dependable that volume is will also need to be factored in.
> There are the limited retail venues for original artwork ... even of the
> "starving" artist variety. And you'll have to compete against other art
> distributors / talent agents for those retail venues.
>
> As for possible other options:
>
> 1) Open up your own art gallery. This is the traditional route for selling
> original works of art. There are many different approaches for this and
> those depend on the price range of the art being sold, the type of art being
> sold, the target market, the local economy, and a long list of other
> factors. You could then hire salespersons to work the gallery for you on
> commission. They don't sell the art, they don't get paid.
>
> 2) Sell to other art galleries. If you go this route, you're now a talent
> agent for the "unknown" artists. And you'll need to sign them up as agency
> clients or the art galleries will just bypass you to go directly to the
> source. However, art galleries almost never have any problem getting the
> unknown artists to sell their work directly to them. Talent agents only
> become an option for a known name artist.
>
> 3) Sell to espresso cafes. Most espresso cafes these days sell all the
> paintings that hang on their walls. Unfortunately, such sales as at best
> secondary income for the cafes. They mainly view it was a way to get
> paintings for nothing to hang on their walls. If they sell a painting,
> that's just gravy and I've never heard of an espresso cafe worker pitching a
> painting to any customer. You give them a couple more painting that the
> cafe need so in case one sells, they have another to hang up to cover up
> that blank wall space. However, they're usually very picky on what
> paintings they'll take and the effort to service them might not be worth it.
>
> Of the three options above, I'd suggest looking into the first one. You do
> not have to quit your job to do it. It can operate on its own with the
> commission-only employees.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Scott Jensen

Thanks to you and Rose for the replies. The oil paintings are painted to
order so, for example, a picture of a boat in a harbour can be repeated
over and over. The artists are employed by the studio to do exactly that
(rather than producing one off pieces). The studios carry thousands
(literally) of paintings at any one time.

Because of this, and the price I can sell them for, I can compete with
the framed prints you mentioned, the customer paying a slightly higher
price than a print, but getting an oil painting instead.

I thought this would be viable to a commissioned salesperson based on
the repeat orders.

Any thoughts?

Joe

"Joe Body" <joebody@safe-mail.net> wrote:
> Thanks to you and Rose for the replies. The oil paintings
> are painted to order so, for example, a picture of a boat
> in a harbour can be repeated over and over. The artists
> are employed by the studio to do exactly that (rather than
> producing one off pieces). The studios carry thousands
> (literally) of paintings at any one time.
>
> Because of this, and the price I can sell them for, I can
> compete with the framed prints you mentioned, the
> customer paying a slightly higher price than a print, but
> getting an oil painting instead.

People usually get prints of painting by famous painters. Your original
paintings are by unknowns (your words). To many that's quite a difference.
People like being able to answer the question, "What a lovely painting.
Who's the artist?"

> I thought this would be viable to a commissioned
> salesperson based on the repeat orders.

Repeat orders is the key phrase here. How can you guarantee that?

Why most sales people work for salary PLUS commission is to insure their
house bills will always be covered. Call it an insurance ... safety net ...
worse case protection ... security. Sales people that only work on
commission are either very desperate or very good. The first produces
terrible results and never get off welfare in the process. The second take
a massive cut for their commission due to you asking them to bankroll your
venture. And, yes, that's exactly what you're asking them to do. They've
got bills and you're asking them to take a chance that they can make money
with no guarantees. Until they bring in commissions, they're eating into
their own finances and thus helping bankroll your venture. What I am saying
is that it will be a hard sell. Made even harder because this is only a
part-time thing for you still and they'll degrade the "opportunity" when
they learn of this.

I guess my question right now is why do you want to sell paintings by
no-names?

Scott Jensen
--
Peer-to-peer networking (a.k.a. file-sharing) is entertainment's future.
If you'd like to know why, read the white paper at the link below.
http://www.scottjensenshow.com/P2PRevolution.pdf