Monitor icc profiles

"text news" <news@lessullivan.co.uk> wrote:

>At what point does Photoshop apply the monitor profile?

Photoshop is using the monitor profile all the time when it shows the
images, it converts the image data that is sent to the monitor path
on-the-fly from the active (RGB or CMYK or Gray) working-space to the
monitor profile. The image data that is in the memory and in the file is
not affected, just the path on-the-fly to the monitor is affected so that
the image data appears correctly on the monitor.

>I use Eye One and it loads a small file at startup which activates
>the profile so it is applied all the time for all programs.
>Can Photoshop use a monitor profile without having to have a
>"loader" program run in startup?

Monitor calibration utilities such as the EyeOne and AdobeGamma also have
calibration functionality in addition that they create the monitor ICC
profile. This monitor profile describes the colorimetry of the monitor
(path) after the calibration has been activated. The loader is needed for
activation of the calibration (the calibration is the same as the CLUTs,
per channel look up curves that are written to the display driver card). So
also AdobeGamma is using the loader, called AdobeGammaLoader.exe.

>Is it possible to have Photoshop use a different
>profile when the program is started?

Hmmm, why. With SW a lot is possible but this is something that you'd not
want to have.

>Is there any possibility of "double profiling"
>with monitor profiles?

When using well written utilities, no. The calibration/profiling utility
first resets the CLUTs then asks the user to calibrate then writes the
profile.

Timo Autiokari http://www.aim-dtp.net

"Timo Autiokari" <timo.autiokari@aim-dtp.net> wrote in message
news:1l9efvov52c9824qj6su7kkrud473q2l4q@4ax.com...
> "text news" <news@lessullivan.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >At what point does Photoshop apply the monitor profile?
>
> Photoshop is using the monitor profile all the time when it shows the
> images, it converts the image data that is sent to the monitor path
> on-the-fly from the active (RGB or CMYK or Gray) working-space to the
> monitor profile. The image data that is in the memory and in the file is
> not affected, just the path on-the-fly to the monitor is affected so that
> the image data appears correctly on the monitor.
>
> >I use Eye One and it loads a small file at startup which activates
> >the profile so it is applied all the time for all programs.
> >Can Photoshop use a monitor profile without having to have a
> >"loader" program run in startup?
>
> Monitor calibration utilities such as the EyeOne and AdobeGamma also have
> calibration functionality in addition that they create the monitor ICC
> profile. This monitor profile describes the colorimetry of the monitor
> (path) after the calibration has been activated. The loader is needed for
> activation of the calibration (the calibration is the same as the CLUTs,
> per channel look up curves that are written to the display driver card). So
> also AdobeGamma is using the loader, called AdobeGammaLoader.exe.
>
> >Is it possible to have Photoshop use a different
> >profile when the program is started?
>
> Hmmm, why. With SW a lot is possible but this is something that you'd not
> want to have.
>
> >Is there any possibility of "double profiling"
> >with monitor profiles?
>
> When using well written utilities, no. The calibration/profiling utility
> first resets the CLUTs then asks the user to calibrate then writes the
> profile.
>
> Timo Autiokari http://www.aim-dtp.net

Other related questions. When using WinXP and PS7, if the Adobe Gamma profile created is selected
as the system default profile, is the Gamma Loader (ColorVision loader or any other profiling loader
for that matter) in startup really necessary? Doesn't PS7 simply use the loaded startup profile, or
if none are loaded at startup doesn't it use the default system profile?

"Jimmy" <whoknows@nevermind.com> wrote:

>When using WinXP and PS7, if the Adobe Gamma profile created
>is selected as the system default profile, is the Gamma
>Loader (ColorVision loader or any other profiling loader
>for that matter) in startup really necessary?

The loader is necessary when the profile was created with an monitor
profiling utility that also has calibration features (when a calibration
feature is adjusted the effect is immediately seen as a change to the
appearance of the Windows desktop/backgound/icon etc).

There is no problem with a loader (like the AdobeGammaLoader.exe) it does
not stay resident. It simply runs at startup, loads the calibration curves
to the display driver hardware and then exits/ends.

>Doesn't PS7 simply use the loaded startup profile, or
>if none are loaded at startup doesn't it use the default
>system profile?

Photoshop is using the active system/monitor ICC profile (all
color-management sw do so) and if nothing is specified it will use the
profile is active in AdobeGamma. But those ICC profiles are only valid for
the calibrated system, so the calibration (that is not an ICC profile) has
to be loaded to the display driver hardware first only then the profile is
correct.

It is possible to only profile the monitor (e.g. with WinNT it has to be
done so since Adobe was not able enough to write the AdobeGamma to be fully
compatible with the NT) in this case a loader is not needed (since the
system is not calibrated). This would be the optimal case *IF* all the sw
we use were ICC color-managed. But because most sw are not ICC
color-managed then we want to adjust the color-temperature, gray-balance
and gamma of the system suitably so that the non-color-managed world
appears somewhat decently on the monitor.

Timo Autiokari http://www.aim-dtp.net

"Timo Autiokari" <timo.autiokari@aim-dtp.net> wrote in message
news:1mkgfvom7sk3fpngktomm5dgon3f8hkjf1@4ax.com...
> "Jimmy" <whoknows@nevermind.com> wrote:
>
> >When using WinXP and PS7, if the Adobe Gamma profile created
> >is selected as the system default profile, is the Gamma
> >Loader (ColorVision loader or any other profiling loader
> >for that matter) in startup really necessary?
>
> The loader is necessary when the profile was created with an monitor
> profiling utility that also has calibration features (when a calibration
> feature is adjusted the effect is immediately seen as a change to the
> appearance of the Windows desktop/backgound/icon etc).
>
> There is no problem with a loader (like the AdobeGammaLoader.exe) it does
> not stay resident. It simply runs at startup, loads the calibration curves
> to the display driver hardware and then exits/ends.
>
> >Doesn't PS7 simply use the loaded startup profile, or
> >if none are loaded at startup doesn't it use the default
> >system profile?
>
> Photoshop is using the active system/monitor ICC profile (all
> color-management sw do so) and if nothing is specified it will use the
> profile is active in AdobeGamma. But those ICC profiles are only valid for
> the calibrated system, so the calibration (that is not an ICC profile) has
> to be loaded to the display driver hardware first only then the profile is
> correct.
>

I take lthis to mean that if the Windows XP default ICC monitor profile is used, there is no need to
used the Gamma loader. Is this correct? It would seem that using the Gamma loader as startup would
only be changing from one ICC profile to another ICC profile. In my situation, I created a hardware
created ICC monitor profile, made it the system default, then removed the Gamma loader from startup.
Under this circumstance, I don't forsee any problem with PS7 having access to the correct display
ICC profile. Is there something wrong in setting up this way?

> It is possible to only profile the monitor (e.g. with WinNT it has to be
> done so since Adobe was not able enough to write the AdobeGamma to be fully
> compatible with the NT) in this case a loader is not needed (since the
> system is not calibrated). This would be the optimal case *IF* all the sw
> we use were ICC color-managed. But because most sw are not ICC
> color-managed then we want to adjust the color-temperature, gray-balance
> and gamma of the system suitably so that the non-color-managed world
> appears somewhat decently on the monitor.
>

I think you have thrown me here. If most software is not ICC color-managed, then would they not
revert back to the default monitor profile, which I am making sure is a valid ICC color profile? In
a Windows system if the default ICC profile is accurate, then there should be no need to readjust
color-temp, gray-balance, and gamma for non-color managed applications.


> Timo Autiokari http://www.aim-dtp.net