'Legally binding contract' or not?

"MC_Emily" <nomore@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:bfpbi0$bdl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Following on from the thread 'Cancelling bids part two', if you bid on an
> item on ebay are you entering into a legally binding contract or not.
Some
> say yes, some say no. Does anyone with a legal background know the
correct
> answer?
>

I suspect the problem is that it's never been tested in an English court -
and I make that distinction very carefully.

Ali

"Ali Hopkins" <fn62@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:bfpbl8$hhibt$1@ID-97728.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "MC_Emily" <nomore@mail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:bfpbi0$bdl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Following on from the thread 'Cancelling bids part two', if you bid on
an
> > item on ebay are you entering into a legally binding contract or not.
> Some
> > say yes, some say no. Does anyone with a legal background know the
> correct
> > answer?
> >
>
> I suspect the problem is that it's never been tested in an English court -
> and I make that distinction very carefully.
>
> Ali
>
>

One rider to my last message, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts applies to
contracts between traders and consumers where the term is to the detriment
of the consumer. consumer-consumer and trader-trader sales are not regulated
by this legislation !

"Stephen Dibble" <s.j.d@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3f2043e8$0$966$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com.. .

> (In case your interested, I do have a legal background in consumer
> legislation)
>
>

Thought you might.

The thing I love about lawyers and rabbis is that they all love debating
minutiae and detail. And very valuable it is, too.

Ali

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:40:27 +0100, "Stephen Dibble"
<s.j.d@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>"Ali Hopkins" <fn62@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
>news:bfpbl8$hhibt$1@ID-97728.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> "MC_Emily" <nomore@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:bfpbi0$bdl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> > Following on from the thread 'Cancelling bids part two', if you bid on
>an
>> > item on ebay are you entering into a legally binding contract or not.
>> Some
>> > say yes, some say no. Does anyone with a legal background know the
>> correct
>> > answer?
>> >
>>
>> I suspect the problem is that it's never been tested in an English court -
>> and I make that distinction very carefully.
>>
>> Ali
>>
>>
>
>For auctions by bidding there seem to be three legal ways of interpreting
>the formation of the agreement
>
>1) The sale is an auction (conducted by the seller, not eBay). Each bid is a
>bid in an auction and, under section 57 of the Sale of Goods Act, can be
>withdrawn prior to the end of the sale
>2) The sale is not an auction. The page on eBay is an 'invitation to treat',
>each bid is an offer and at the end of the sale the seller accepts the
>highest offer (or not if they have good reason to). In contract law, an
>offer can be withdrawn from at any time prior to acceptance
>3) The sale is not an auction. The page on eBay is a conditional offer, and
>each bid is a conditional acceptance. Therefore, each bid forms a legally
>binding contract. The conditions of the contract is that it only binding on
>the seller if at the end of the sale, the buyer is the highest bidder. The
>buyer is unconditionally bound.
>

Ive always gone with No2
I dont accept that it IS a legal contrat and that if it IS then the
distance selling rules come into place.

I also consider that Ebay must take some legal responsibility as an
'Agent', over and above the ridiculous amounts they offer as
compensation

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:40:27 +0100, "Stephen Dibble"
<s.j.d@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>"Ali Hopkins" <fn62@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
>news:bfpbl8$hhibt$1@ID-97728.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> "MC_Emily" <nomore@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:bfpbi0$bdl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> > Following on from the thread 'Cancelling bids part two', if you bid on
>an
>> > item on ebay are you entering into a legally binding contract or not.
>> Some
>> > say yes, some say no. Does anyone with a legal background know the
>> correct
>> > answer?
>> >
>>
>> I suspect the problem is that it's never been tested in an English court -
>> and I make that distinction very carefully.
>>
>> Ali
>>
>>
>
>For auctions by bidding there seem to be three legal ways of interpreting
>the formation of the agreement
>
>1) The sale is an auction (conducted by the seller, not eBay). Each bid is a
>bid in an auction and, under section 57 of the Sale of Goods Act, can be
>withdrawn prior to the end of the sale
>2) The sale is not an auction. The page on eBay is an 'invitation to treat',
>each bid is an offer and at the end of the sale the seller accepts the
>highest offer (or not if they have good reason to). In contract law, an
>offer can be withdrawn from at any time prior to acceptance
>3) The sale is not an auction. The page on eBay is a conditional offer, and
>each bid is a conditional acceptance. Therefore, each bid forms a legally
>binding contract. The conditions of the contract is that it only binding on
>the seller if at the end of the sale, the buyer is the highest bidder. The
>buyer is unconditionally bound.
>
>In case 1&2, the bid is NOT a legally binding contract, whereas in case 3
>the bid IS.
>




Can you withdraw a bid in ebay ? AFAIK you *can* - there is a process
for withdrawing a bid.

In which case....... even under points 1 and 2 where merely making a
bid does not form the contract.... *however* closing the sale with
your bd highest *does* form a contract...... - this means in practise
the result is the same. Even if your bid (unaccepted) doesn't form a
contract - if you are highest at the close a contract is formed.

Even if a bid is a contact - it can be legally and legitimately
rescinded.... which is the same in effect.

Anyway.........

Fuzzyman


>However, there is an extra dimension to this matter which came into effect
>on April 1st 2003. A change in the law mean that a sale by a trader to a
>consumer on eBay is definately a consumer sale.Therefore, the Unfair Terms
>in Consumer Contract Regulations come into effect for the contract. Whilst
>untested, it is highly likely that a contract term which conditionally binds
>the seller, which unconditionally binds the buyer will fail the test of
>fairness and therefore will be void ! It is for the courts to decide, but I
>strongly suspect that option 3 breaches these regulations and therefore
>cannot be binding.
>
>Which is correct is anyones guess. The law does not define auction, only for
>'sale by competitive bidding''. It is possible that , whether a sale by
>competitive bidding is an auction, is a matter of decision of the
>seller.Certainly, it is possible to have a sale by competitive bidding which
>is not an auction, for example a 'Mock Auction'.
>
>For 'Buy It Now', the issues are similar. Again three options exist
>
>1) The eBay page is an invitation to treat. The bid is an offer and the
>computer acts for the seller in accepting by closing the sale and the
>contract is binding.
>2) The eBay page is an invitation to treat. The bid is an offer, the sale
>ends, but until the seller explicitely accepts the contract is not binding
>3) The eBay page is an offer. The bid is a acceptance and the contract is
>binding.
>
>Option 2 seems unlikely and options 1 & 3 have the same effect in real
>terms. Personally, I think option 1 is the most likely.
>
>At the end of the day, this will need testing in the courts. Whether this
>will be by way of a civil dispute following a sale or legal action against a
>seller for breach of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations I dont
>know.
>
>You never know, it may be none of the above. !
>



>(In case your interested, I do have a legal background in consumer
>legislation)
>

---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera

http://www.voidspace.org.uk
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com