Too late to become a graphics programmer?

Hello everyone,

Lately I've suddenly become very interested in becoming a 3D graphics
programmer for games. Random centainly, but not that irrational, since
it's a way to combine my love of mathematics with my love of computer
games. However, there is one question that's been upsetting me and
preventing me from putting aside everything to make this dream a
reality. Please answer truthfully...

I've just started a maths degree and so will have 4 (possibly 3) years
before going into industry. Is that enough time to learn 3D graphics
programming fully, one of the most challenging areas of games
programming? My anxiety can be further emphasised by the fact that I
have done little programming at all, bar the occasional text-based
mastermind game in Python.

If it is feasible, which I sincerely hope it is, do you have any
recommendations for how to begin? I was planning to first learn C++
fully (I've done SOME programming before, so if I concentrate I should
be okay), then learn OpenGL inside out. Is that a good idea? Should I
learn DirectX instead? (I'd prefer OpenGL :-) Also, I've heard the best
way to get into the games industry is by showing off what YOU'VE
written yourself, but many sites warn not to try anything too complex
-- and a 3D engine is certainly pretty complex. How big a solo project
do you think is reasonable? Can you give some examples? (I realize, of
course, that I'll only be able to start on The Big Project once I've
done a few Little Projects first.)

If graphics programming is NOT feasible, I'd still like to become some
form of games programmer. I'd be particularly interested in physics, AI
or network programming, but will take mostly anything to get my foot in
the door. Is there any area you'd recommend given my situation?

Let me just say that although I haven't done any serious programming,
I'm not a complete newb when it comes to computers. I use and tweak
Linux, and I've done some very basic programming. These are but dust
compared to the mountain of games programming, I know, but it means
that I seem to have the right mind for it. I just need to learn. A lot.

Thanks for any replies. I just need some information to get me started.
Once I've decided on a feasible route I can concentrate on that fully,
but I don't want to start until I'm certain I won't run out of time.

Alex.

(As a footnote, let me just say that I HAVE read about the "darker"
side of games programming - long hours, low pay and frequent job
changes. I think the chance to do one of the most interesting and
challenging forms of programming is a pretty damn good trade off, even
though there will undoubtedly be hard times.)

Can I just add this: if I were to go into AI programming, would you
recommend changing to a computer science degree?

> Can I just add this: if I were to go into AI programming, would you
> recommend changing to a computer science degree?

Please people let me know if I say anything here grossly outdated or
just wrong

Having studied computer science at uni myself (albeit over 10 years
ago) i would have to say that it's a lot of overhead just for what you
would learn that's directly relevant to graphics or AI programming.

But, if you are already studying then it's no loss to swtich, and you
sound as if you are more interested in the computer science than in the
maths.

Closely check what subjects are on offer, specialise for exactly what
you wish to achieve. Forget, or try for an exemption, for any stupid
"business related" class or "IT and society" class or similar, these
time-wasting no brainers and in no way are going to help you as a
programmer or get a job. Employers care about programming skills.

Do, on the other hand, try and get onto programming-related special
projects and volunteer to work for lecturers for free. This is a great
way to get your name on a paper (if you are lucky) and will impress
employers, while giving you experience of real programming and access
to cutting edge AI ideas (the researchers have already sifted out all
the crap ideas). Also, helping lecturers couldn't hurt your marks, now,
could it ?

If you can youself into a course in which at least 2 / 3 or classes are
directly math or programming oriented you are doing well. Anyone agree
/ disagree ?

The most important math to understand for games (nowhere near a
complete list) :

- boolean logic / set theory
- vectors / matrix maths
- algebra
- trigonometry
- calculus (for physics models)
- any sort of discrete maths not covered above.

I would have to say I've learnt more about programming by
experimentation than in sitting in class at college

- Jason

Thanks for the reply Jason!

> Forget, or try for an exemption, for any stupid
> "business related" class or "IT and society" class or similar, these
> time-wasting no brainers and in no way are going to help you as a
> programmer or get a job. Employers care about programming skills.

Mmm, I agree. There's actually a Computer Science & AI course at my uni
that looks interesting. The only "business related" module I can find
is called "Introduction to e-Business", and that's only in the first
year (which consists of 11 modules in total). The other modules look
interesting -- Assembly Language Programming, Discrete Mathematics,
Object Oriented Programming and Algorithms, and so on. In fact, for a
complete list see
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/c...s/compsci.html .

> I would have to say I've learnt more about programming by
> experimentation than in sitting in class at college

Indeed. That's why I'm still considering continuing my maths degree
regardless, and learning all the programming in my spare time. However,
I'll still have to dedicate a fair amount of time to my course, and if
the course itself is in some way related to what I want to do it'll
make my life that much easier :-)

I'll have to think about it. For now I'll just continue working through
C++: A Dialog (online at
http://www.steveheller.com/cppad/Output/dialogTOC.html ). Keep the
replies coming, they're always helpful!

Alex.

> The only "business related" module I can find
> is called "Introduction to e-Business" [...]

Agh, sorry, I think that module's for Computer Science and e-Business
undergrads only. Possibly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have seen many universities which do pure AI degree's under faculties of
computing, although it would be a good idea to have it alongside computer
studies as this would give you a grounding in all the aspects of computers
and what the AI can be applied to feasibily!
<walsh.alexander@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129672587.972116.38690@g47g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
> Lately I've suddenly become very interested in becoming a 3D graphics
> programmer for games. Random centainly, but not that irrational, since
> it's a way to combine my love of mathematics with my love of computer
> games. However, there is one question that's been upsetting me and
> preventing me from putting aside everything to make this dream a
> reality. Please answer truthfully...
>
> I've just started a maths degree and so will have 4 (possibly 3) years
> before going into industry. Is that enough time to learn 3D graphics
> programming fully, one of the most challenging areas of games
> programming? My anxiety can be further emphasised by the fact that I
> have done little programming at all, bar the occasional text-based
> mastermind game in Python.
>
> If it is feasible, which I sincerely hope it is, do you have any
> recommendations for how to begin? I was planning to first learn C++
> fully (I've done SOME programming before, so if I concentrate I should
> be okay), then learn OpenGL inside out. Is that a good idea? Should I
> learn DirectX instead? (I'd prefer OpenGL :-) Also, I've heard the best
> way to get into the games industry is by showing off what YOU'VE
> written yourself, but many sites warn not to try anything too complex
> -- and a 3D engine is certainly pretty complex. How big a solo project
> do you think is reasonable? Can you give some examples? (I realize, of
> course, that I'll only be able to start on The Big Project once I've
> done a few Little Projects first.)
>
> If graphics programming is NOT feasible, I'd still like to become some
> form of games programmer. I'd be particularly interested in physics, AI
> or network programming, but will take mostly anything to get my foot in
> the door. Is there any area you'd recommend given my situation?
>
> Let me just say that although I haven't done any serious programming,
> I'm not a complete newb when it comes to computers. I use and tweak
> Linux, and I've done some very basic programming. These are but dust
> compared to the mountain of games programming, I know, but it means
> that I seem to have the right mind for it. I just need to learn. A lot.
>
> Thanks for any replies. I just need some information to get me started.
> Once I've decided on a feasible route I can concentrate on that fully,
> but I don't want to start until I'm certain I won't run out of time.
>
> Alex.
>
> (As a footnote, let me just say that I HAVE read about the "darker"
> side of games programming - long hours, low pay and frequent job
> changes. I think the chance to do one of the most interesting and
> challenging forms of programming is a pretty damn good trade off, even
> though there will undoubtedly be hard times.)
>

> I'll have to think about it. For now I'll just continue working through
> C++: A Dialog (online at
> http://www.steveheller.com/cppad/Output/dialogTOC.html ). Keep the
> replies coming, they're always helpful!

Sorry we have a firewall at work and can only look at a few websites

have you encountered template classes ? these are very powerful and can
signifigantly reduce programming effort once you have built some decent
container classes, or use the Standard Template Library if you prefer.

It's well worth the effort to take a detour into template classes early
on in learning c++ and make some reusable components.

Hi everyone, sorry for the slow response but our lecturers decided to
dump a load of coursework on us recently...

> It's well worth the effort to take a detour into template classes early
> on in learning c++ and make some reusable components.

Okay, I'll look into it at some point, but it's probably best for me to
leave that until later so I can get experience with the C++ core first.

Just to let you all know, I went down the comp sci department yesterday
and talked to one of the guys there. He said it's definitely too late
to change to comp sci now, and next year top-up fees will begin (I live
in the UK) so it's not advisable to start a new degree then. However,
one option is to do a maths BSc, then apply for a comp sci masters
later.

I've been thinking a lot about this recently and I think maybe it's
best for me to just continue with my maths masters degree. Maths is not
just enjoyable but is also a hugely useful tool for games programming,
and having to teach myself games programming will give me invaluable
skills in being able to learn new things myself (which I'll be doing
for the rest of my life).

So there you have it. Gotta run now, it's dinner time (yay for catered
accommodation!)

Alex.