How does Nintendo control GB/GBA cartridge production?

I've played with some GB/GBA toolkits and I was wondering how Nintendo can
control the production of GB/GBA cartridges. How can they do this when a GB
cartridge is nothing more than a ROM on a PCB? Is there a patent on the form
of the cartridge and why hasn't anyone tried to work around this?

"Dr. O" <dr.o@xxxxx> wrote in message
news:3f79459a$0$34887$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl...
> I've played with some GB/GBA toolkits and I was wondering how Nintendo can
> control the production of GB/GBA cartridges. How can they do this when a
GB
> cartridge is nothing more than a ROM on a PCB? Is there a patent on the
form
> of the cartridge and why hasn't anyone tried to work around this?

I believe that their method of control is not techincal, but legal.

Tony

"Tony Di Croce" <iaretony@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0404a144ff40183473f1a5420471e7c3@news.teranew s.com...
>
> "Dr. O" <dr.o@xxxxx> wrote in message
> news:3f79459a$0$34887$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > I've played with some GB/GBA toolkits and I was wondering how Nintendo
can
> > control the production of GB/GBA cartridges. How can they do this when a
> GB
> > cartridge is nothing more than a ROM on a PCB? Is there a patent on the
> form
> > of the cartridge and why hasn't anyone tried to work around this?
>
> I believe that their method of control is not techincal, but legal.
>

Could you elaborate? A patent is a legal control mechanism, but I don't
understand what there is to patent on a cartridge.

"Tony Di Croce" <iaretony@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<0404a144ff40183473f1a5420471e7c3@news.terane ws.com>...
> "Dr. O" <dr.o@xxxxx> wrote in message
> news:3f79459a$0$34887$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > <snip> I was wondering how Nintendo can
> > control the production of GB/GBA cartridges. How can they do this when a
> GB cartridge is nothing more than a ROM on a PCB? Is there a patent on the
> >form of the cartridge and why hasn't anyone tried to work around this?
>
> I believe that their method of control is not techincal, but legal.

I beleive this is correct. Nothing special, but they have the legal
rights to be the sole manufacturers of the Nintendo cartridges. This
is also why they're willing to lose money on the consoles they
sell--they make up for it in manufacturing costs. Publishers have to
pay Nintendo IN CASH before Nintendo does their production run for a
game. Nintendo charges a high margin for each cartridge produced and
the developer gets a tiny slice after distribution/marketing/other
overhead.

"Frecklefoot" <chris@bucketobits.com> wrote in message
news:dfd57bb5.0310010530.1ce45747@posting.google.c om...
> "Tony Di Croce" <iaretony@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<0404a144ff40183473f1a5420471e7c3@news.terane ws.com>...
> > "Dr. O" <dr.o@xxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:3f79459a$0$34887$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > > <snip> I was wondering how Nintendo can
> > > control the production of GB/GBA cartridges. How can they do this when
a
> > GB cartridge is nothing more than a ROM on a PCB? Is there a patent on
the
> > >form of the cartridge and why hasn't anyone tried to work around this?
> >
> > I believe that their method of control is not techincal, but legal.
>
> I beleive this is correct. Nothing special, but they have the legal
> rights to be the sole manufacturers of the Nintendo cartridges.

How can they have the sole right to produce these cartridges if there's no
patent on them? And if there is, why isn't there a way to work around it?

> How can they have the sole right to produce these cartridges if there's no
> patent on them? And if there is, why isn't there a way to work around it?

You seem obsessed with "patents". This is not a patent issue. Nintendo,
being the console manufacturer gets to say what software is legally allowed
to run on it's hardware. If you owned a lemonaid stand, would you like to
have the right to say that I cannot sell my lemonaid at you're stand? Of
course you would.

Having said that, I'm not really sure how I feel about this issue. It does
seem like an independant should be able to do a clean room reverse
engineering of you're console and be allowed to sell software for it.

Nevertheless, the law is what it is. Nintendo owns the rights to their
platform. If you want to sell software that runs on it, you have to pay
Nintendo. (this isn't all bad BTW. They get to do QA on every game that
appears on their systems.)

Tony

"Tony Di Croce" <iaretony@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<626013e55384e934a32b94817fbff19d@news.terane ws.com>...
> Nevertheless, the law is what it is. Nintendo owns the rights to their
> platform. If you want to sell software that runs on it, you have to pay
> Nintendo.

This is absolutely right. Nintendo has been known to rip off game
ideas from developers who submit game ideas for approval (kind of like
how a developer would submit a game proposal to a publisher). In this
case, they are seeing if Nintendo will "allow" them to make the game
for the GC, GB or GBA. They'll give it the green light and then, lo
and behold, Nintendo releases a game IDENTICAL to the one the
developer submitted a game idea for. Also Nintendo has been known to
hold up prodection on titles if they have a similar title coming out
soon. To some, this seems like good business sense. To others, it
seems sneaky and underhanded. I guess it all depends on your
perspective...

FYI, Sega has a similar deal with the Genesis and Sony has it with the
PS and PS2. This is all moot, however, since you can only get the
development systems from Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft (for the XBox).

"Tony Di Croce" <iaretony@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:626013e55384e934a32b94817fbff19d@news.teranew s.com...
> > How can they have the sole right to produce these cartridges if there's
no
> > patent on them? And if there is, why isn't there a way to work around
it?
>
> You seem obsessed with "patents". This is not a patent issue. Nintendo,
> being the console manufacturer gets to say what software is legally
allowed
> to run on it's hardware. If you owned a lemonaid stand, would you like to
> have the right to say that I cannot sell my lemonaid at you're stand? Of
> course you would.

How about Ford dictating that only its mufflers can be used on its cars?
That doesn't work, see, because there are loads of third-party muffler
manufacturers out there. Sony and Philips are receiving royalties for the CD
standard, but that's because they hold patents on it. IIRC every Nintendo
cartridge has on it some patent numbers (or at least claims), and IMHO
that's how they control access to their system. However, it seems awfully
difficult to me to patent something trivial as a ROM cartridge. In other
words: there must be a way to work around those patents!!

> How about Ford dictating that only its mufflers can be used on its cars?
> That doesn't work, see, because there are loads of third-party muffler
> manufacturers out there. Sony and Philips are receiving royalties for the
CD
> standard, but that's because they hold patents on it. IIRC every Nintendo
> cartridge has on it some patent numbers (or at least claims), and IMHO
> that's how they control access to their system. However, it seems awfully
> difficult to me to patent something trivial as a ROM cartridge. In other
> words: there must be a way to work around those patents!!

But then you wouldn't be able to display the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" on
your packaging!
Honestly, though, I promise you want to be on good terms with the hardware
manufacturers. If you want to make a GBA game and get it sold, Nintendo is
your friend, not your enemy. Trying to find a way to crank out cartridges
without them isn't going to be in your best interests.

"Tito" <tito@j5.net> wrote in message news:<YhNgb.79428$eS5.4985@twister.tampabay.rr.com >...
> But then you wouldn't be able to display the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" on
> your packaging!

Beleive it or not, this is worth something. I used to work for a
developer that reverse-engineered its own Sega development system.
Sega sued them, but later settled out of court (they actually paid the
game developer to shut up and just use their own system they had
developed). Sega said they could go ahead and manufacture the carts
however they wanted, but the developer still went through Sega to get
that seal.

> Honestly, though, I promise you want to be on good terms with the hardware
> manufacturers. If you want to make a GBA game and get it sold, Nintendo is
> your friend, not your enemy.

In general this is true. Though they may rip off your game ideas, you
really need to work with them to get your game published.