Are Antivirus software companies like the Mafia?

Antivirus software companies charge you money to "protect" your computer
from viruses and other bad things that could happen to it (trojan horse,
worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there is a very good
chance that something bad will happen to your computer. Some people say
that some antivirus software companies are even responsible for some (or
most) of the new viruses that come out.........that way there is always
a need for their products.

Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for protection or
you'll get hurt or something like that.

Is this just a coincidence?

--
Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©

http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

Since there are many free anti-virus products, it just seems
to be a coincidence.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


"The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:MPG.1af9fa7cc3a4e0a1989a78@news.alt.net...
| Antivirus software companies charge you money to "protect"
your computer
| from viruses and other bad things that could happen to it
(trojan horse,
| worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there is a
very good
| chance that something bad will happen to your computer.
Some people say
| that some antivirus software companies are even
responsible for some (or
| most) of the new viruses that come out.........that way
there is always
| a need for their products.
|
| Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for
protection or
| you'll get hurt or something like that.
|
| Is this just a coincidence?
|
| --
| Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©
|
| http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

Hi,

First of all, it's a bad idea to post with your real email address to forums
like these, as users are already infected with viruses and are looking for
help. They will harvest your email.

"The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1af9fa7cc3a4e0a1989a78@news.alt.net...
> Antivirus software companies charge you money to "protect" your computer
> from viruses and other bad things that could happen to it (trojan horse,
> worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there is a very good
> chance that something bad will happen to your computer. Some people say
> that some antivirus software companies are even responsible for some (or
> most) of the new viruses that come out.........that way there is always
> a need for their products.
This is an odd argument. After all, couldn't you say the same about most
every services industry? Doctors don't make people sick to get their
business. There is no "massive" conspiracy. The antivirus industry is so
large that it would be doubtful a secret such as that would be able to stay
in for so long.

> Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for protection or
> you'll get hurt or something like that.
You can avoid getting hurt by using common sense, even if you don't have an
antivirus program. Viruses require user intervention to spread - some
require the lack thereof. It's not antivirus programs that stop viruses from
spreading - they're only a safety net.

> Is this just a coincidence?
No; a coincidence would entail some sort of similarity of unusual nature.
There is nothing unusual here. And, if you still feel this way, try a free
antivirus program like this one:

http://www.grisoft.com/

Here is it from a virus writer's perspective, reflecting on the absurdities
that were speculated upon because of a somewhat confusingly worded (but
standard) phrase in a Symantec write-up:

http://www.virusbtn.com/magazine/arc...d_straight.xml

Sincerely,
Benjamin "Trafton" Johnstone-Anderson
Microsoft MVP - Windows Security
Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply!
Security Manifest: www.msmvps.com/trafton/

This is an Off Topic subject for the majority of News Groups posted to.

In reply however....

And police don't earn a salary ?
Do we not pay the FBI and CIA employees ?
Does not a lawyer charge for services ?
Does not a locksmith get paid for their services ?

So AV companies have a *RIGHT* to charge for their services as well. Most are nominal fees.

In actuality, this kind of bullsh!t argument has no relevance in *any* of the posted News
Groups.
Take this argument to; alt.comp.virus and/or alt.comp.anti-virus
Those locations are more apropos for this kind of broad discussion as it does not really
have a Microsoft basis since the argument would be the same for *any* OS including
Microsoft.

Dave





"The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1af9fa7cc3a4e0a1989a78@news.alt.net...
| Antivirus software companies charge you money to "protect" your computer
| from viruses and other bad things that could happen to it (trojan horse,
| worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there is a very good
| chance that something bad will happen to your computer. Some people say
| that some antivirus software companies are even responsible for some (or
| most) of the new viruses that come out.........that way there is always
| a need for their products.
|
| Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for protection or
| you'll get hurt or something like that.
|
| Is this just a coincidence?
|
| --
| Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©
|
| http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:52:15 -0700, in alt.tv.sopranos, Trafton rubs the
lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this
whenever it's told -


> Hi,
>
> First of all, it's a bad idea to post with your real email address to forums
> like these, as users are already infected with viruses and are looking for
> help. They will harvest your email.

I don't open email from people I don't know so the joke is on them.
They will be wasting their time if they send me an email.

>
> "The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1af9fa7cc3a4e0a1989a78@news.alt.net...
> > Antivirus software companies charge you money to "protect" your computer
> > from viruses and other bad things that could happen to it (trojan horse,
> > worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there is a very good
> > chance that something bad will happen to your computer. Some people say
> > that some antivirus software companies are even responsible for some (or
> > most) of the new viruses that come out.........that way there is always
> > a need for their products.

> This is an odd argument. After all, couldn't you say the same about most
> every services industry? Doctors don't make people sick to get their
> business. There is no "massive" conspiracy. The antivirus industry is so
> large that it would be doubtful a secret such as that would be able to stay
> in for so long.

We still don't know who really shot JFK, so it's entirely possible that
a secret like this could be kept for a long time.

>
> > Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for protection or
> > you'll get hurt or something like that.
> You can avoid getting hurt by using common sense, even if you don't have an
> antivirus program. Viruses require user intervention to spread - some
> require the lack thereof. It's not antivirus programs that stop viruses from
> spreading - they're only a safety net.
>
> > Is this just a coincidence?
> No; a coincidence would entail some sort of similarity of unusual nature.
> There is nothing unusual here. And, if you still feel this way, try a free
> antivirus program like this one:
>
> http://www.grisoft.com/
>
> Here is it from a virus writer's perspective, reflecting on the absurdities
> that were speculated upon because of a somewhat confusingly worded (but
> standard) phrase in a Symantec write-up:
>
> http://www.virusbtn.com/magazine/arc...d_straight.xml
>
> Sincerely,
> Benjamin "Trafton" Johnstone-Anderson
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Security
> Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply!
> Security Manifest: www.msmvps.com/trafton/
>
>
>

--
Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©

http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:58:39 -0400, in alt.tv.sopranos, David H. Lipman
rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again. It does
this whenever it's told -


> This is an Off Topic subject for the majority of News Groups posted to.
>
> In reply however....
>
> And police don't earn a salary ?
> Do we not pay the FBI and CIA employees ?
> Does not a lawyer charge for services ?
> Does not a locksmith get paid for their services ?
>
> So AV companies have a *RIGHT* to charge for their services as well. Most are nominal fees.
>
> In actuality, this kind of bullsh!t argument has no relevance in *any* of the posted News
> Groups.
> Take this argument to; alt.comp.virus and/or alt.comp.anti-virus
> Those locations are more apropos for this kind of broad discussion as it does not really
> have a Microsoft basis since the argument would be the same for *any* OS including
> Microsoft.

What other OS, besides Windows, is affected to any large extent by a
virus?

>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> "The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1af9fa7cc3a4e0a1989a78@news.alt.net...
> | Antivirus software companies charge you money to "protect" your computer
> | from viruses and other bad things that could happen to it (trojan horse,
> | worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there is a very good
> | chance that something bad will happen to your computer. Some people say
> | that some antivirus software companies are even responsible for some (or
> | most) of the new viruses that come out.........that way there is always
> | a need for their products.
> |
> | Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for protection or
> | you'll get hurt or something like that.
> |
> | Is this just a coincidence?
> |
> | --
> | Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©
> |
> | http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com
>
>
>
>

--
Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©

http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

Virus writing is not an OS-dependent thing. Most types of viruses could be
written for another OS. There are fewer of them primarily because they are
less successful. There have been MacOS mass-mailing worms (i.e.
MacOS/Simpsons) and file infectors (too many examples to name, but I'll give
one randomly: MacOS/Sevendust). Mac worms have even been found in the wild,
case in point MacOS/AutoStart. The same goes for Linux worms. Mass-mailers
of today have less to do with Windows than Outlook Express.

Additionally, the JFK argument is flawed: whoever shot JFK did not have
thousands and thousands of employees.

For all we know, gremlins occupy the center of the Earth. Just because
something is a remote paranoid possibility does not mean it is worth being
concerned over. There are so many things more imminent than that, such as
actually protecting one's computer.

Sincerely,
Benjamin "Trafton" Johnstone-Anderson
Microsoft MVP - Windows Security
Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply!
Security Manifest: www.msmvps.com/trafton/

>
> What other OS, besides Windows, is affected to any large extent by a
> virus?
>

Since Windows is 90% of the systems, 99 % of the jerks write
viruses for Windows.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


"The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:MPG.1afa02ef6bee4e7a989a7a@news.alt.net...
| On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:58:39 -0400, in alt.tv.sopranos,
David H. Lipman
| rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose
again. It does
| this whenever it's told -
|
|
| > This is an Off Topic subject for the majority of News
Groups posted to.
| >
| > In reply however....
| >
| > And police don't earn a salary ?
| > Do we not pay the FBI and CIA employees ?
| > Does not a lawyer charge for services ?
| > Does not a locksmith get paid for their services ?
| >
| > So AV companies have a *RIGHT* to charge for their
services as well. Most are nominal fees.
| >
| > In actuality, this kind of bullsh!t argument has no
relevance in *any* of the posted News
| > Groups.
| > Take this argument to; alt.comp.virus and/or
alt.comp.anti-virus
| > Those locations are more apropos for this kind of broad
discussion as it does not really
| > have a Microsoft basis since the argument would be the
same for *any* OS including
| > Microsoft.
|
| What other OS, besides Windows, is affected to any large
extent by a
| virus?
|
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "The Magnificent Bastard" <magnif_bastard@hotmail.com>
wrote in message
| > news:MPG.1af9fa7cc3a4e0a1989a78@news.alt.net...
| > | Antivirus software companies charge you money to
"protect" your computer
| > | from viruses and other bad things that could happen to
it (trojan horse,
| > | worm, etc.). If you don't pay for protection, there
is a very good
| > | chance that something bad will happen to your
computer. Some people say
| > | that some antivirus software companies are even
responsible for some (or
| > | most) of the new viruses that come out.........that
way there is always
| > | a need for their products.
| > |
| > | Sounds kind of like the mafia. Either you pay them for
protection or
| > | you'll get hurt or something like that.
| > |
| > | Is this just a coincidence?
| > |
| > | --
| > | Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©
| > |
| > | http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
| --
| Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©
|
| http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:15:51 -0700, in alt.tv.sopranos, Trafton rubs the
lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this
whenever it's told -


> Virus writing is not an OS-dependent thing. Most types of viruses could be
> written for another OS. There are fewer of them primarily because they are
> less successful. There have been MacOS mass-mailing worms (i.e.
> MacOS/Simpsons) and file infectors (too many examples to name, but I'll give
> one randomly: MacOS/Sevendust). Mac worms have even been found in the wild,
> case in point MacOS/AutoStart. The same goes for Linux worms. Mass-mailers
> of today have less to do with Windows than Outlook Express.

99%+ of all viruses affect computers that run Windows.

True or false?

>
> Additionally, the JFK argument is flawed: whoever shot JFK did not have
> thousands and thousands of employees.

Unless the government had JFK killed. The govt. employees many
thousands of people. But, since we don't know who shot JFK, we really
don't know how many people they employed.

>
> For all we know, gremlins occupy the center of the Earth. Just because
> something is a remote paranoid possibility does not mean it is worth being
> concerned over. There are so many things more imminent than that, such as
> actually protecting one's computer.

Actually, we do know that gremlins do NOT occupy the center of the
Earth.

>
> Sincerely,
> Benjamin "Trafton" Johnstone-Anderson
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Security
> Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply!
> Security Manifest: www.msmvps.com/trafton/
>
> >
> > What other OS, besides Windows, is affected to any large extent by a
> > virus?
> >
>
>

--
Magnificent Bastard Productions 2004 ©

http://www.magnificentbastardproductions.com

To bolster Benjamin's point....

Viruses for Apple including, but NOT limited to....

MacOS/nVIR - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99830.htm
MacOS/INIT-M - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99861.htm
MacOS/ZUC - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99863.htm
MacOS/CDEF - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99888.htm
MacOS/MBDF - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99829.htm
MacOS/INIT29 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99858.htm
MacOS/WDEF - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99862.htm
MacOS/SevenDust - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99884.htm
MacOS/Simpsons@MM - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99102.htm
W97M/Antimarc@MM - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_98325.htm
MacOS/CODE252 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99832.htm
MacOS/MDEF - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99835.htm
MacOS/CODE32767 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99838.htm
MacOS/INIT1984 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99857.htm
MacOS/INIT9403 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99859.htm
MacOS/Flag - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99891.htm
MacHC/Merryxmas - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99893.htm
MacOS/CODE9811 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99896.htm
MacOS/Peace - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99831.htm
MacOS/INIT17 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99834.htm
MacOS/NVP - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99836.htm
MacOS/T4 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99839.htm
MacOS/ANTI - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99887.htm
MacOS/CODE1 - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99890.htm
MacHC/ThreeTunes - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99892.htm
MacOS/Frankie - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99894.htm
W32/Yourde - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100269.htm (can be carrier not be infected)

Plus "all"; MS-Word and MS-Excel and other MS Office Macro viruses

As for OS-X, it is a Unix BSD based OS that uses Apache and experiences *many* of the
exploits on the Unix/Linux platforms
BSD/Scalper.worm - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99539.htm
BSD/Exploit-Autofsd - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99388.htm
BSD/OpenSSH.src - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99680.htm
Linux/Slapper.worm.a - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99710.htm
Linux/Slapper.worm.b - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99710.htm
Linux/Slapper.worm.c - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99710.htm
UNIX/Exploit-Rogue - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99775.htm
BSD/Block.worm - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100670.htm
BSD/Walk.worm - http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100196.htm

Trojans:
ChinaTalk
CPro
Fontfinder
MacMag
Mosaic
NVP
Steroid
SubSeven
Tetricycle
Virus Info


References:
http://vil.nai.com
http://www.ciac.org/ciac/bulletinsBy...bulletins.html
http://www.ciac.org/ciac/bulletinsBy...bulletins.html
http://www.icsalabs.com/html/communi...e/viruses.html
http://www.icsalabs.com/html/communi...rus/reference/
http://www.securemac.com/agax.php


Dave