H2: XBox Live implementation. Awful?

I've been playing H2 online over the past few nights, so I'm not expert
on the whole thing yet, but is it just me that thinks the whole online
setup stinks?

Firstly, what's the difference between a Clan and a Party?
Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw
me into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.
Why cant I JUST play against my friends?
Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
typically non-existant?

If there is a way to achieve some of those mentioned above, please let
me know.. I don't profess to being a H2 wiz, but I've spend nights
trying to find out how to accomplish the above, and can't find it

Burnout 3 is the other main online game I play, and whilst EA servers
may be ropey at best, the way you setup each race/crash can't be faulted.

Comments below:

GamerTag: Drunken Newf




"bobby" <nom@il.thanks> wrote in message
news:co1o6k$oa$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> I've been playing H2 online over the past few nights, so I'm not expert on
> the whole thing yet, but is it just me that thinks the whole online setup
> stinks?

I've heard people complaining about it a lot. I for one, don't find it bad
at all. In fact, I think Bungie's implementation of Halo 2 on XBOX live is
awesome. Clans, voice messages, just the pure ease of getting friends
together makes a great experience.

> Firstly, what's the difference between a Clan and a Party?

A clan is a group of 100 Live users. They can only be part of one clan at
one time. Basically, you can have any number of your members competing in
different clan matches at one time.

A party is a group of your friends that can either play a custom made game
with options of your choice, or enter into matchmaking with Bungie's
playlists. Basically, Bungie created the "party" to recreate the couch
experience in playing halo. Once again, I think this implementation works
great. Its easy as hell to get friends that are logged on together for a
game.

> Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw me
> into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.

You can play exactly what game you want! Only thing is, that it would be
against friends on your list. You would have to create a "party" invite
those friends in and play whatever the heck you want. This game would be
unranked in Bungie's view. Think about it. If Bungie allowed you to select
exactly what map, type of game and options you want it would be unfair to
other players. Joe Blow may practice a map, know all the secrets and
glitches etc. and whoop everyone's ass in it. Its a way of keeping the game
fair, and forces everyone to be an average player on all levels. Also,
Bungie automatically selects the best host for speeds etc. If every tom ****
and harry was hosting their own games, everyone would be complaining about
lag and how ****ty Halo 2 is. Think of it as a way of keeping the game
experience great.

> Why cant I JUST play against my friends?

You most certainly can play against "just your friends". Create a party,
invite them in and play whatever map.options you choose. Game would be
unranked...but who cares!

> Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
> typically non-existant?

They give you a small run down of the options before the game starts. If you
are unsure, ask someone in the room. Someone will always pipe up and explain
the rules to you.


> If there is a way to achieve some of those mentioned above, please let me
> know.. I don't profess to being a H2 wiz, but I've spend nights trying to
> find out how to accomplish the above, and can't find it
>
> Burnout 3 is the other main online game I play, and whilst EA servers may
> be ropey at best, the way you setup each race/crash can't be faulted.

bobby <nom@il.thanks> wrote in message news:<co1o6k$oa$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw
> me into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.

Select "Optimatch" and not "Quick match" and set your optimatch
settings to the kind of game you like to play (I currently have mine
set to "Rumble Pit" which just includes slayer games).

> Why cant I JUST play against my friends?

You can. Create a party, set up the game however you like, and invite
all your friends.

> Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
> typically non-existant?

It is a confusing at first. And the Halo manual is ****.

-Eric

bobby <nom@il.thanks> wrote in message news:<co1o6k$oa$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw
> me into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.

Select "Optimatch" and not "Quick match" and set your optimatch
settings to the kind of game you like to play (I currently have mine
set to "Rumble Pit" which just includes slayer games).

> Why cant I JUST play against my friends?

You can. Create a party, set up the game however you like, and invite
all your friends.

> Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
> typically non-existant?

It is a confusing at first. And the Halo manual is ****.

-Eric

bobby <nom@il.thanks> wrote in message news:<co1o6k$oa$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...

> Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw
> me into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.

Select "Optimatch" and not "Quick match" and set your optimatch
settings to the kind of game you like to play (I currently have mine
set to "Rumble Pit" which just includes slayer games).

> Why cant I JUST play against my friends?

You can. Create a party, set up the game however you like, and invite
all your friends.

> Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
> typically non-existant?

It is a confusing at first. And the Halo manual is ****.

-Eric

He's right it is awful. First why do you need to have friends to create a
custom game? What if u have no friends or they are not on? Why can't you
just choose a custom game and have people who want choose to join. If they
are afraid its not fair then they don't have to join. If they can't do that
there should at least be more options on the type of game and the map you
prefer. In addition to that the same games are chosen over and over. If
you play 10 games in a row chances are that at least 4 of them will be the
same game/map. I have yet to see a big team slayer.

Also it is way to focused on ranking. Who cares about ranking it should be
for fun. Why can't you play certain games when you have a guest on your
box. That does not make sense.

I would suggest people use something like xbconnect at least there people
create there own games and they choose good games and options as opposed to
the same ole crappy options chosen on xbox live.




"Joe Martin" <joeymartin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6l%od.184480$Np3.7467940@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Comments below:
>
> GamerTag: Drunken Newf
>
>
>
>
> "bobby" <nom@il.thanks> wrote in message
> news:co1o6k$oa$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
>> I've been playing H2 online over the past few nights, so I'm not expert
>> on the whole thing yet, but is it just me that thinks the whole online
>> setup stinks?
>
> I've heard people complaining about it a lot. I for one, don't find it bad
> at all. In fact, I think Bungie's implementation of Halo 2 on XBOX live is
> awesome. Clans, voice messages, just the pure ease of getting friends
> together makes a great experience.
>
>> Firstly, what's the difference between a Clan and a Party?
>
> A clan is a group of 100 Live users. They can only be part of one clan at
> one time. Basically, you can have any number of your members competing in
> different clan matches at one time.
>
> A party is a group of your friends that can either play a custom made game
> with options of your choice, or enter into matchmaking with Bungie's
> playlists. Basically, Bungie created the "party" to recreate the couch
> experience in playing halo. Once again, I think this implementation works
> great. Its easy as hell to get friends that are logged on together for a
> game.
>
>> Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw
>> me into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.
>
> You can play exactly what game you want! Only thing is, that it would be
> against friends on your list. You would have to create a "party" invite
> those friends in and play whatever the heck you want. This game would be
> unranked in Bungie's view. Think about it. If Bungie allowed you to select
> exactly what map, type of game and options you want it would be unfair to
> other players. Joe Blow may practice a map, know all the secrets and
> glitches etc. and whoop everyone's ass in it. Its a way of keeping the
> game fair, and forces everyone to be an average player on all levels.
> Also, Bungie automatically selects the best host for speeds etc. If every
> tom **** and harry was hosting their own games, everyone would be
> complaining about lag and how ****ty Halo 2 is. Think of it as a way of
> keeping the game experience great.
>
>> Why cant I JUST play against my friends?
>
> You most certainly can play against "just your friends". Create a party,
> invite them in and play whatever map.options you choose. Game would be
> unranked...but who cares!
>
>> Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
>> typically non-existant?
>
> They give you a small run down of the options before the game starts. If
> you are unsure, ask someone in the room. Someone will always pipe up and
> explain the rules to you.
>
>
>> If there is a way to achieve some of those mentioned above, please let me
>> know.. I don't profess to being a H2 wiz, but I've spend nights trying to
>> find out how to accomplish the above, and can't find it
>>
>> Burnout 3 is the other main online game I play, and whilst EA servers may
>> be ropey at best, the way you setup each race/crash can't be faulted.
>
>

bobby <nom@il.thanks> wrote in message news:<co1o6k$oa$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
> I've been playing H2 online over the past few nights, so I'm not expert
> on the whole thing yet, but is it just me that thinks the whole online
> setup stinks?

It's drawn rave reviews. Even people who dislike the campaign tend to
love the online play. I wouldn't say it's just you, but I'd say you're
in the minority.

> Firstly, what's the difference between a Clan and a Party?

A party is a group of people playing together at a given time, who go
together from game to game, or get slotted into games together.

A clan is a semi-permanent group of people in what amounts to an
online club.

Parties are often but not always made up of clan members. You can join
or form a party on the fly. If you like the playing style of someone
you were just in a game with, you can invite him to join a party, and
then the two of you will be in the same games (and on the same team,
in team games).

Most of the time that the system spends slotting you into games has to
do with fitting parties together and having everyone be in the same
level range.

> Why cant I play the exact game I want to play? Why does the Lobby throw
> me into a CTF game, when I may just want to play an Assault game.

You can do this in unranked games. In ranked games, the reason is
because you might have a particular advantage at a certain game type,
and if you always played that game type, your stats would be
artificially inflated compared with other, better-rounded players.
This is also the reason you can't pick maps.

> Why cant I JUST play against my friends?

You can, in unranked games.

> Why are the instructions on how to play each game awful at best, or
> typically non-existant?

I have played a lot of Halo, so I may be missing something, but I
think the game types are generally pretty obvious. Granted, it takes
about a game of each variant to realize that "major assault" means one
bomb in the middle, "multi-bomb" means one bomb in each base,
"one-bomb" means that the bomb alternates locations between bases, and
the like. It's not that complicated.

> If there is a way to achieve some of those mentioned above, please let
> me know.. I don't profess to being a H2 wiz, but I've spend nights
> trying to find out how to accomplish the above, and can't find it

Unranked games.

Bill wrote:
> He's right it is awful. First why do you need to have friends to
> create a custom game? What if u have no friends or they are not on?

It's not exactly hard to get a friends list together on Xbox Live...
If they're not on then play later or start playing a ranked match or
Training Ground (unranked) match.

> Why can't you just choose a custom game and have people who want
> choose to join. If they are afraid its not fair then they don't have
> to join. If they can't do that there should at least be more options
> on the type of game and the map you prefer. In addition to that the
> same games are chosen over and over. If you play 10 games in a row
> chances are that at least 4 of them will be the same game/map. I
> have yet to see a big team slayer.

You should read the Bungie update pages which answered these sorts of
questions.

http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory....klyupdatenov19

As for getting new players together for a further merriment you can do this
from the postcarnage report screen. I quoteth Max Hoberman with the good
news;

You can invite players in your matchmade game to join your party from the
Recent Players list in game or by selecting them on the Postgame Carnage
Report (the postgame lobby).
You can select friends and clan members that are in custom games or in the
pregame lobby and choose to join them immediately.
You can send out party invites to friends and clan members individually or
en masse.
If you're a party leader you can merge your party with another party.


> Also it is way to focused on ranking. Who cares about ranking it
> should be for fun. Why can't you play certain games when you have a
> guest on your box. That does not make sense.

Not sure what you mean there; you have four players on Live playing on one
Xbox.

> I would suggest people use something like xbconnect at least there
> people create there own games and they choose good games and options
> as opposed to the same ole crappy options chosen on xbox live.

Don't be silly, Live rocks and Bungie should be congratulated on their
implementation.



--

Deano
Gamertag: buckskin

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:26:16 -0500, "Bill" <msgdev@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Also it is way to focused on ranking. Who cares about ranking it should be
>for fun.

Without a ranking system, a newbie or less-skilled player could
constantly find themselves fighting against very skilled practised
players. It's no fun to lose all the time, against veterans who can
snipe you in the head as soon as you respawn. The ranking system makes
sure you can't play against people much better - or worse - than you.


I think the Optimatch system is innovative and pretty cool, but I also
think there are three big flaws that spoil it:

1) No sense of companionship or teamwork when you're thrown together
with strangers you've never seen before, and 5 minutes later will
never see again. You can't develop good teamwork strategy with
5-minute strangers. With a more traditional "server" system, you'd get
to know those strangers the longer you stay on their server; but Halo
2 optimatch games are so brief and unfriendly.

2) The 3-minute wait in Matchmaking for every match. I don't want to
wait 3 minutes while it finds me some *new* strangers to play against,
when I'd be happier going straight into another round with the
strangers from the last match, and hopefully building some teamwork
with them.

3) You can have the equivalent of a traditional server, of course --
but only with people on your friends list. Do most people who've just
signed up to Xbox Live know *anybody*? And can you ever make
worthwhile friends, when optimatch games are so transitory, and
everyone leaves as soon as the scoreboard comes up?

But apart from that it's okay.


Gavin Clayton

Gavin Clayton wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:26:16 -0500, "Bill" <msgdev@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Also it is way to focused on ranking. Who cares about ranking it
>> should be for fun.
>
> Without a ranking system, a newbie or less-skilled player could
> constantly find themselves fighting against very skilled practised
> players. It's no fun to lose all the time, against veterans who can
> snipe you in the head as soon as you respawn. The ranking system makes
> sure you can't play against people much better - or worse - than you.
>
>
> I think the Optimatch system is innovative and pretty cool, but I also
> think there are three big flaws that spoil it:
>
> 1) No sense of companionship or teamwork when you're thrown together
> with strangers you've never seen before, and 5 minutes later will
> never see again. You can't develop good teamwork strategy with
> 5-minute strangers. With a more traditional "server" system, you'd get
> to know those strangers the longer you stay on their server; but Halo
> 2 optimatch games are so brief and unfriendly.

You can create a party from the postcarnage report if everyone agrees to
stick around and not press B to continue. From there you can probably get
some Friend invites.
Or of course they will be Recent players and you can send Friend invites
using that. Then next time you can find these people and create a party.


--

Deano
Gamertag: buckskin